Автор Тема: Delay, длинные ноты, шумовой звук (Прочитано 6137 раз)

doozer · « **Ответ #45 :** Июля 29, 2008, 22:30:02 »

Вот высказывание чела, которое, как мне кажется, убьет всякую надежду получить звук как у Edge'a

FYI, there is an exact duplicate of Edge's entire rack under the stage which is controlled by him or someone else with the flip of a switch. So what you see on effects unit meters and such on the U2 live video footage means nothing. The actual processors he is using are hidden out of sight. The stage rack could be a prop for all anyone knows. It's a show...you can count on it being a prop. On songs like "All I want is you" and "Where the Streets have no name". The delay arrangement is quite a bit more interesting as you suggest. Your observations are almost correct however two or three digital delays are used in these situations. the huge sound wall of echo that you hear on U2 records is the result of shorter slap echoes that modulate in pitch feeding into longer delays that also modulate in pitch. The accumulation of the delays and modulation on modulation gives you something more like a wall of reverberant texture which is exactly what Edge is doing a lot of the time. This came about through a combination of experiments done by a combination of people at different times all colliding. Brian Eno, Daniel Lanois, Michael Brook, The Edge and to a lesser degree others who were around the Grant Avenue studio in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada were all responsible for the sound which The edge has become famous for. Hamilton, Ontario Canada is where this ambient treatment sound of feeding effects devices like echo, delay, reverb and modulation all into each other using the send and return matrix of a mixing console originated from. These are the folks who mostly realized this sound. To a lesser degree people like Bob Lanois, David Botrill, Harold Budd had great influence too ! but Eno was definitely the spark that started the ball rolling when he showed up at Grante Ave in the late 70's to get away from his regular environment. Canada's musical landscape and abstract thinkers like Joni Mitchell and Neil Young appealed to the younger Eno. Lanois was another Canadian abstract thinker along with his brother Bob who had a studio based not in great technique but in great vibe and comfort. A place you wanted to be because it was relaxing to be there which made you play better and be more creative. In "All I want is you" the delay guitar is a mono track and the chain is like this: Guitar > SDD-3000 > SDD-3000 > Vox AC30 In "Where the streets have no name" it is done like this: Guitar > SDD-3000 > splitter box > TC2290 > AC30#1 > TC2290 > AC30#2 The first SDD-3000 is setup for shorter echoes. The guitar often goes into a single SDD-3000 which is setup to do "slap" echo: Something between 80 and 200 ms Feedback set to repeat a little just like an echoplex or Roland Space echo would. The hi and low pass filters on the SDD-3000 are set to roll off at 125Hz on the bottom and 4 kHz on the top to simulate the increasingly darkening repeats and the inherent generation loss of each repeat in a tape delay based system. Modulation is set to triangle waveform, about .50 Hz is the speed you want for the LFO in the modulation section with the depth up just a little until you can percieve that the delay is moving a little and this creates the wow effect of tape delay. SO now you have a guitar with a slapback type echo on it like the effect on Elvis' voice or John Lennon. That sound kind of becomes more of a reverb sounding effect. That is how you hear it anyway and then you feed that into the longer modulating delays that often show up in U2 songs between 350 and 450 ms. This is how and why the sound is so lush an more complex than you are able to get with just delays running in parallel. In "All I want is you" the output of the first SDD-3000 setup to to slap echo reverberant type of sound feeds into either a single SDD-3000 set to do between 350 and 450 ms of delay with several repeats. The modulation on the second unit is setup for triangle LFO and the filters are set to roll off at 250Hz on the low filter and flat on the hi filter. Modualtion is set for a rate of 5Hz (6 on the SDD-3000 knob) and depth gets turned up untilk you hear the repeats wobble (about 1.5 on the knob) I believe the same effect is used on "Walk On" and other songs. Alternatively in "Where the Streets have No Name" the output of the first SDD-3000 doing it's slap echo feeds into two TC2290 delays setup to both do longer modulation delays similarly setup like the second SDD-3000 in the example above for "All I want is you". The TC's don't have the LFO set to Triangle but Sine wave because they do not offer triangle wave. The TC rol!ls off a 200Hz on the low side and flat on the high side with no rolloff. Sine wave is a little smoother on the pitch wobble than the triangle wave of the SDD-3000. However those two TC 2290 delays are set like this: TC2290 1) 8th note delay - left side TC2290 2) dotted 8th note delay - right side The outputs of each TC delay feed two seperate amps.

About me: I'm a mixing engineeer and have spent over 30 years listening to effects at the console while mixing records for people. I know what I am hearing and I don't need to slow it down to hear it. I have used every processor in the Edge's rack and more. They are all Studio classics like the AMS DMX 15-80s, TC2290 and the H3000. There are some units that are a big part of the U2 swound that are not in Edge's rack but he uses substitute devices such as the Yamnaha SPX-90 and Lexicon PCM81 to create a version of that sound because some of these things...especially one that I won't mention (so ebay prices ! don't skyrocket) which looks like a droid from Star Wars is not something you want to take on the road. Very expensive...over 25 years old...no more spare parts available...etc. Those processors are left at U2 headquarters and used only when needed on mixes at the console. Let's just say that U2 owns the best reverb unit ever made, one fo the first digital revebs ever developed and it's about the size of two PC computers and weighs a lot and has controls on it that look like it's from the inside of the starship enterprise. The Treatments on U2 records get a lot more complicated than this! A lot more!!! Let me tell you...no one will ever cop those sounds. Not even Brain and Dan can re-create them the exact same way because most of those treatments are days and days of expeimentation going in a direction guided only by intuition and no map to trace your steps backwards. Best of luck everyone!

romk · « **Ответ #46 :** Июля 29, 2008, 22:51:23 »

да а кто бы сомневался что там все не так просто....

Migel · « **Ответ #47 :** Июля 29, 2008, 23:03:10 »

какой дилейчик посоветуете для арпеджио и соло, кто нить Ерасов пробывал?

Boutique-Tone · « **Ответ #48 :** Июля 30, 2008, 10:22:45 »

Migel, ты ххххх!

doozer,и все. Забейте вы на Edge! Он ис 2 Memory Man'ами звучал как Edge. Я читал интервью его техника, где он посал, что 60% его shimmering тона-это медиаторы Herdim, которыми он играет кверху ногами, т.е. только круглой стороной.

Так, что чувак со всех сторон таинственен и во многом добился своего тона и звука благодаря экспериментам во многом за гранью «классических» гитарных приемов. Вот тут это даже объясняют

doozer · « **Ответ #49 :** Июля 30, 2008, 22:00:39 »

Цитата: Boutique-Tone от Июля 30, 2008, 10:22:45

Я читал интервью его техника, где он посал, что 60% его shimmering тона-это медиаторы Herdim, которыми он играет кверху ногами, т.е. только круглой стороной.

Насчет 'Herdim' - старая тема... все никак не могу сподобится заняться приобретением... Интересно попробывать - как оно - играть Herdim'ом?
что смущает, насколько товар за 15$ по бай ит нау будет интересен для посредника

хотя, ...

Цитата: Boutique-Tone от Июля 30, 2008, 10:22:45

doozer,и все. Забейте вы на Edge!

Правильно!!! Думайте о более реальных вещах, которые могут свершится!!! Например, о приобретении квартиры в москве...

Boutique-Tone · « **Ответ #50 :** Июля 31, 2008, 01:08:59 »

doozer, я заказал их. Скоро приедут. Заезжай за парочкой

Bio · « **Ответ #51 :** Июля 31, 2008, 09:09:41 »

Владимир Владимирович, Nova Delay ND-1 использовал лично?
Как там с байпасом дела обстоят?

doozer · « **Ответ #52 :** Июля 31, 2008, 10:58:48 »

Цитата: Boutique-Tone от Июля 31, 2008, 01:08:59

doozer, я заказал их. Скоро приедут. Заезжай за парочкой

ОК. Спасибо!!!

как приедут - дай знать.

romk

Цитата: Boutique-Tone от Июля 31, 2008, 01:08:59

doozer, я заказал их. Скоро приедут. Заезжай за парочкой

пивная,ещё парочку!

promity · « **Ответ #54 :** Апреля 16, 2010, 07:11:56 »

замечательный пример игры с дилэем и "на дилэе"

Public Image Ltd. Home
Guitar - Steve Vai
Public Image Ltd. Home
(несколько интересней звучит гитара все того же Steve Vai в песне Fishing, но не нашел видео)

BOSSS · « **Ответ #55 :** Апреля 16, 2010, 11:46:17 »

пришло пополнение гробокопателей

promity · « **Ответ #56 :** Апреля 16, 2010, 19:37:29 »

Вижу: лира над могилой
Дремлет в сладкой тишине;
Лишь порою звон унылый,
Будто лени голос милый,
В мертвой слышится струне!

Koromazoff · « **Ответ #57 :** Ноября 29, 2011, 11:11:54 »

Подниму тему, есть тут фанаты u2 играющие максимально близко по звучанию к эджу?

rikitikitavi · « **Ответ #58 :** Ноября 29, 2011, 14:13:35 »

Интересно какой перегруз здесь, может кто определит

U2-Achtung Baby-Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses lyrics

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Автор Тема: Delay, длинные ноты, шумовой звук (Прочитано 6137 раз)

doozer

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romk

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Migel

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Boutique-Tone

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doozer

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Boutique-Tone

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Bio

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doozer

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romk

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promity

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BOSSS

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promity

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Koromazoff

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rikitikitavi

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